Honest Thomas
It's Low Sunday. One week on from Easter. Traditionally the day when we remember Thomas, the disciple who doubted.
It isn't true, but many in the Church seem to believe that doubt is the antithesis of faith. In fact, the opposite of faith is not doubt, but unbelief.
"Dubious questioning", wrote Coleridge, "is a much better evidence than that senseless deadness which most take for believing. People that know nothing…have no doubts. Never be afraid to doubt, if only you have the disposition to believe, and doubt in order that you may end in believing the truth."
"Doubting Thomas" is the uncomplimentary title that Thomas has often been tagged with. But it would be more accurate, I think, to call him Honest Thomas. He was a man of integrity; he didn't pretend to believe things that he didn't really; he didn't say the words just to feel part of the crowd. It's much harder to own up to being the odd one out among a group of friends, and it was brave, when he found that he was the odd one out, not to go off and be by himself. For a whole week he went on meeting up with the other disciples. Their faith and stories of visions must have made him feel uncomfortable and left out. But he still hung around. Eventually, Jesus came and met him in person. His integrity paid off; when faith came to him as a gift, it was his own and not someone else's.
Doubt is not the same as unbelief. Unbelief is a determined refusal to believe, whereas doubt is an honest owning up to not being convinced. In Judaism, according to Jonathan Sacks, the Chief Rabbi of Britain and the Commonwealth, "To be without questions is not a sign of faith, but of lack of depth." And he encourages people not only to ask questions about the meaning of the faith, but to question God. We ask questions, says Sacks, "not because we doubt, but because we believe."
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Maggi has kept a blog since September 2003, writing about theology and faith, the arts and literature, and a little about life and random nonsense...
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Thank you for the link Maggi.:^)
The New Apostolic Reformation leaders sold Lakeland, and are gearing up to deceive on that scale again.
What’s false can’t be restored.
What I want to know is what has happened to the first Mrs Bentley? In the Baptist Union a divorcee who has re-married can be re-admitted to ministry but one of the conditions is that there is some form of reconciliation with the original partner.
Amen!
I have observed that this kind of ‘restoration’ is very often ‘allowed’ for leaders, but not quite so easy for followers. Ethical reflection gets distorted and it is hard to see that there is any coherent doctrine of sin and grace seems rather cheap.
If I could speak to Bentley I would tell him to RUN. Those people are using him because of his popularity at Lakeland. If they truly loved and cared for him they would not put him back in any ministry within a decade, if ever. That level of restoration even psychologically would take years. Cheap grace indeed. Leaders are held to higher standards. But that group he’s with is far from upholding Scriptures first. God have mercy on the “new Bentley couple” My prophecy- watch out for the next affair, drug abuse and wife #3 +
Really pathetic – Joyner and his cronies are enabling Bentley to continue in sin and are giving him God’s ostensible stamp of approval as he is “restored.” Apparently restored in this case means restored to his position of flock-fleecer without any repentance at all.
Anyone care to bet on his commitment to preaching repentance as part of the Gospel?
this is pathetic. Romans 7:2-3 makes it clear that his second marriage itself is adultery – he needs to end it. I agree – there shouldn’t even be talk about ministry. My questions: At what point did he turn from his adultery? At what point did his new wife? Their “marriage” not only goes against Romans 7:2-3, but also Matt 19 and Mark 10 – Jesus’ directly speaks about it. Todd’s wife might not take him back – so he is to remain single for his decision. Instead, he has made a covenant with adultery and is trying to justify it.
Tye is correct. Bentley’s second marriage is adultery and needs to end.
I disagree with Tye and SYB that “second marriage is adultery” – I think it’s a whole lot more complicated than that. But in any case, for me the issue is not the rights and wrongs of his personal affairs, but the way in which his ministry and public life is being “handled” in such a cynical fashion.
The Bible is extremely clear about marriage, divorce, and remarriage. If anyone remarries while the covenant (first) spouse is living…it is adultery no matter how you dice it.
This is just really sad, isn’t it? In all sorts of ways.
I know Todd dedicated his life to God, he helped alot of people and gave them hope. We need more people helping others like Todd. Nobody is perfect. Nobody
Found Maggi on Twitter!, enjoying your updates.
Anyway, with reference to ppw and Tye etc…
Just a few general comments on this topic (not on Bentley in particular)
I think a failed marriage can be made the ‘unforgiveable sin’ by those in the church and we need to remember that our God is a God of grace and forgiveness and those things are available to those who fail.
I know alot of people hold the views of either the 1. covenantal approach or 2. new testament approach
Re 2. just a couple of the grounds for divorce adultery/unfaithfulness Matt 19 :9
Desertion 1 Corinth 7: 15
Obviously all divorce is failure and disappointment to God and its wise that all re-marriage services should include confession and acknowledgement of past failures and a re-commitment to God.
Apparently from what I have read remarriage in Jesus time would have been assumed, Jesus would not needed to have mentioned it in particular…..
Agree re Tod but let us have some grace too!
WOULD ANYONE CARE IF HE WAS JUST YOUR NEIGHBOR NOPE BUT I SAY GOD KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING I’M SURE GLAD JESUS DIDN’T THINK THE WAY PEOPLE NOW DAYS . I THANK GOD FOR TODD AND FORGIVE HIM JUST AS GOD FORGIVES US WE ALL DESERVE A CHANCE I WENT TO LAKELAND AND WHAT HAPPEN TO TODD DIDN’T STOP ME FROM GROWING CLOSER TO OUR LORD . THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING IS PUTTING OUR EYES ON GOD THESE DAYS R SHORT AMEN
Todd is NOT in the right…by staying in his second marriage he is living in sin all the time…according to God, Todd is married to Shonna still and therefore, he is living in adultery. But really what should have happened is he should have gone to the leaders and told them about the affair and it should have ended right there! I respect Todd as a man that is older than me, but I do not, and cannot, respect him as a man of God. He needs to end his second marriage and go back to his first wife. Todd, read your Bible and get a clue!
Re: Helen:
when you marry one person, in God’s eyes, you are bound to them for life…remarriage is not an option. It upsets me to see people who don’t think anything about getting divorced/remarried. IT IS WRONG TO BE DIVORCED…TODD IS LIVING IN SIN!!!
hey guys, i’m 44 this month, my wife is 46. We’ve raised 5 children the youngest are the twins and they are 20, the oldest is 25. My wife home schooled them all and they all love God, (a lot) and are doing really well in college and career. no divorce, no cheating, no affairs.
sitting on my throne of laurels, let me tell you this. if I could go back in time to anywhere, I would go back to my wedding day and just ease up. try not to be so wound out about right and wrong in others, you have a very legitimate right to bring judgement into your own life, after that it gets a bit sketchy.
perfect love is really powerful, it casts out fear just because it is so good. if you think about it, its what really drew you to God in the first place.
think about the woman caught in the act of adulturey, Jesus actually saved her life. can you try to be like your master and bring the life saving glory of your master to messy icky places?
honestly, a lot around us is wrong, try not to focus on what Todd did that was wrong. or for that matter, even your own mistakes. a real truth about pointing the finger is that when you do it, inadvertantly you end up pointing back at yourself as well. by this I mean when we judge others, and persist in finding fault, in some degree we usually tend to be guilty of the same thing in some place in our own lives.
when I was 19 I spent a bit of time with a man who was 87. he told me there was a man he knew of in Pennsylvania who only preached on the blood of Jesus, for over 37 years, week in and week out. he told me this was not a mistake, it was appropriate for this man because the topic was burning and alive inside him, forever fresh like the hidden manna in the ark.
Real grace is not cheap, nor is it free. it came at great great cost. however, there is only one way to waste the shed blood of the passover lamb… that is to not apply it to our own sins. by the same token however, to ignore its application on the doorpost of another’s heart is a big no no.
my advice, ease up, let the dust settle, speak words of life, and be slow to speak or act when what you say or do will be painful to someone else, even if you are dead sure you are right.
I think I have a word for Todd, He has been on my heart and I have been praying for him and God told me this: “I know the plans that I have for you and they are of good and not evil…”
…(edited for length by the blog owner!)
here’s some truth from behind the scenes in Abbotsford. Jessa first of all was an intern in the fall 08 cycle. She never applied for it Todd invited her into the internship. Even after a board member severly opposed it. Later Todd invited her and another intern to live in his house during the internship, and after the internship as a live in nanny.
At the same time the Bellingham, Washington church was being established so fresh fire could get a legal foot hold in America. This is evident by the lack and the sheer refusal to work with the local churches. It was just for the papers not the church.
In January 2009 2 members of the board confronted Todd about Jessa, and that it was wrong and they couldn’t stand by him about it. They where “relieved” of their position for doing so. This shouldn’t be surprising as another member of FFM was face with the same threat, after he caught Todd with another woman in England (this is what the dark night of the soul was actually about), the FFM member was forced to either work for FFM outside of North America or be fired. Jessa is woman number 4 that Todd has cheated on Shonnah with.
Todd isn’t 100% to blame just 80% the rest of the blame falls on those board members and pastors that refused to confront Todd on his infidelities. One in particular had the mind set that if Todd does it, it’s okay even if it isn’t for others. Others refused to confront because they didn’t want to loose their jobs (like many have over the years)
Even in Lakeland which I personally think was a two edged work of God, it was a blessing to the locals who have prayed for God to move. And the other edge was a judgement on Todd, in total over the top Todd style. During the highet of revival there was excessive drinking, slasher flicks, and other things I wont get into now with Todd and his inner circle (yes men). There was infighting with the leaders on stage, and the interns where just slaves with ministry badges. Or the fact that all the money collected for the orphans and for sudan never made it to them, it was instead used to pay for the buildings/land for the revival.
Even after Lakeland fell apart, and the news finally became public, Todd never returned home to Abbotsford. He remained in America (illegally) in California, then a breif stop in Reno for their quickey divorce rules. Then it was off to Rick Joyner and his marriage with Jessa
These words are not made up, this is a summary of many conversations I have had with former FFM employees, board members and former interns. I just can’t stand by and see Todd get away with this for a fourth time. A man who has turned his back on his wife and children once again. yet will be received by the masses as THE man of God.
I love the comment from Geoff, we cannot see the big picture that God can see,we can encourage our brothers and sisters in Christ to seek His ways in all things, however we have NO right or authority to condemn (even more so when we are not one of the direct parties involved), that right is His and His alone.
Forgot to say Maggie – thank you for posting this, it is good, if not somewhat painful to see the responses that your questioning of this ’spin’ has unveiled.
Maggi I whole heartidly agree with your post,and to quote you ‘not because I am down on divorcees either but, because this whole Todd Bentley issue in my opinion makes a mockery of God and indeed the Word of God, add to this the more than dubious ‘Lakeland Outpouring’ you have more spin then all the political parties put together.
How in the name of God, and I mean that in it’s purest sense and in no way a blasphemous manner can Rick Joyner or anyone else try to convince people that ‘hey it’s ok God has restored him as a husband’, I don’t see any logic in in let alone anything Bible based.
My opinion, it is all built on sand.
I have sadly seen this happen time and again over the years and was left spiritual damaged for a time to but, my faith in God was intact.
As a child (I am 39 now) I was around in the days of Trevor Dearing and the whole Hannault experience, I was part of a church that got really caught up eith both the Kansas City Prophets and the Toronto Blessing, I have seen and heard so much from ‘men of God’ whose personal lives in no way reflected the message they were preaching. I have sadly seen young people lose their faith and more besides because and this is only my opinion what I would name as heresy.
Things like this come round in waves and people get caught up and before you know it it is sinking sand time.
I just hope and pray that those that follow under a false belief will not sink.
I left the charasmatic movement 10 years ago (whilst in leadership, I even announced why) and would love to find a church, that is God centered, where the Word of God is the foundation and where it is the people who are the church, the body of Christ.
You gotta check out this website. They totally promote Todd Bentley, Mike Bickle, Paul Keith Davis, etc.
http://www.thenewsongcharlotte.blogspot.com
Thanks David for telling us about http://www.thenewsongcharlotte.blogspot.com I just found a link to John Crowder. Todd Bentley is an old wineskin. Get over him. God is doing a new thing and it is in John Crowder and his Mystical School ministry. Monthly meetings are being held in Santa Cruz. God will not be stopped. Check it out.
I went to Lakeland and was uplifted by Todd. I’m not saying his divorce or his re-marriage is right. I’m saying none of us are perfect or perfectly in line with the Bible. Judging him is not our job, it’s Gods job. Our job is to Love and forgive others. I don’t think one sin is any larger than another. Sin is Sin, yet we get forgiveness from Our God if we ask in earnest, if we are truly sorry for it in our heart. I pray for him and his family (ex-wife and children) and his new wife. If we spent more time doing what we’re supposed to do instead of poking our noses in other peoples business, we might actually pay more attention to who’s watching us. Not too many of us, including myself know all the circumstances that lead to what happened with Todd. Sometimes things can’t be fixed by humans and that’s where God takes over and restores our soul. For instance, my first husband use to beat me every time he got to drinking. I tried and tried to fix it but I couldn’t. So I turn to God and said, you take over, I can’t fix this, please help me. Twelve years I lived this way. Finally his doctor said he was dying of cancer, he died nine months later. I took care of him till the day he died. No regrets. Two years later I remarried a wonderful man who takes care of me and loves me. We have been married 25 years march 2010. God has blessed me greatly because I let him take over my life and give me what he wanted me to have. BUT, before all that could happen, I had to forgive my first husband for the things he did to me. I did and I’m glad I did.